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User talk:Groupoid
Hi, welcome to Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Large Hospital Room page. Before you continue reading on this wiki, as a general spoiler warning, we would like to inform you that here, at 999 Wiki, we assume that you have beaten the game of 999. All articles are written in an unrestricted style under this assumption; and so therefore, if you have beaten the game and have unlocked the full storyline of 999, keep reading! This message is just for you! If not, we ask that you please finish the game first before you join us. We'll wait; we promise! We would absolutely not wish to ruin the critically-acclaimed storyline that is the magic of 999! Alright, so you've beaten the game of 999 then? Excellent. If you're reading this and have beaten the game, then you probably love 999 as much as we do (and know why too). For us, at 999 Wiki, our goal to become the largest and most comprehensive database on all things 999, written by fans, for fans (just like you), that anyone can edit. However, to achieve this ultimate goal, our community needs more and more fans to edit this wiki, and we would love to have you become a part of it. As you can see right now, there is much work to do around here, and we could really use your help. So if you love 999, we hope you enjoy your stay and explore the many things that this wiki has to offer. Images . [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 16:56, September 25, 2011 (UTC) One more thing: for legal reasons, we advise that you please don't upload other people's work. The exception is of course, official content from 999 itself i.e. screenshots, boxart, sprites. More Images Breaking the "Thou shall not use MS Paint" rule? Heh heh heh. I think I can forgive you for that. As of now, image quality is second in priority to actually filling the wiki with content, so you don't need to worry about that anymore. Each editor has their own style of editing. You have a macroscopic perspective, and I, a microscopic one. Since you're not constrained by progress of trying to beat the game again on an emulator while capturing every single detail along the way, this allows you to be contribute in a different way than other editors, granting you the freedom of editing from the general viewpoint of "the big picture". We could really use more editors like you, especially on the Character pages. They could really use some improvement. Regarding the merging of the Numbered doors, I think I'll wait and see how it turns out. Right now, each door might not have enough details that may set them apart, but given time, they might have enough for each to hold on it's own as an independent article. On the other hand, I think that the Large Hospital Room Hallway should be merged as an extension of the Large Hospital Room, unless of course, it has or will have sufficient content. Which youtube playthrough did you watch? Was it by Atma01? [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 21:17, September 25, 2011 (UTC) Hey.. Just another image question, so I thought I'll pop it in here. I notice that your image for the Lab fills in the slideshow totally and was wondering why, and after checking it out, I notice that you saved your image to a different size. Not saying that's anything wrong, because it isn't, but so far every image is at 256 width (I think its because 343 and myself uses the emulator, which has 256px width), so I was wondering would you think its a good idea to have them the same size? Maybe its just me that notice. Like I said, its not a big deal... :) SharkGears I suppose resizing on MS Paint would be harder then other program... I or someone else can replace them later, its not a huge deal really. They work as they are now, it's just a little jarring if others notice, but we can fix them as they go. I'm more of a visualize person, so images and how they are used are usually what I notice first in a wikia. Sorry to bother you on all of these things, I don't mean to be rude or anything. SharkGears About Spoilers The style this wiki is written in goes by the assumption that the viewer has already completed the True Ending, therefore, there's no need to hide spoilers. This allows greater freedom and flexibility in writing these articles. I really need to clarify the manual of style, which was made to set standards and avoid conflicts. As for in-universe perspective, it means that for content articles, you write from the viewpoint of neutrality: avoid the usage of "you" and "the player", such as "if you choose this path", instead use "Junpei", for example, "if Junpei chooses this path". It means that for generic information (and by generic I mean that the scope of the article encompasses the entire story), they are written from the perspective of the True Ending. For example, for Junpei's character infobox, is he Alive or Deceased? This varies upon the ending, of course, so for generic information, it's from the perspective of the True Ending and would also be written in the past tense. Character articles are great examples of generic articles, so you would write "Ace was", or "Ace did", and whatnot. However, for specific articles, such as that of the 3rd class cabin, which only spans for a specific period of time, they are written in the present tense. Users come at their own peril, knowing fully well that they might encounter spoilers if they are hanging out on a fan site or a database. The Ace Attorney and Professor Layton wikis as well as virtually every other wiki follow this assumption as well, and they write in the same unrestricted style. And for parts of the story that diverge based upon the choices the player makes, including Character articles and your Laboratory page, the guideline is that everything shared and in common should be written first, and then a special section should be written for each path. So for the Laboratory page, you would write everything that will always happen regardless of the choices made, and then make sections that branch off from there. Ex: Story blah, blah, blah Safe Ending If Junpei chose Door 5 before entering the laboratory... blah, blah, blah, assume that the player had chosen this path Normal Ending I Junpei did not choose Door 5, 'blah, blah, blah, assume that the player had chosen this path instead'' By the way, could you use leave section headers each time you leave a message on my talk page. It organizes things and also makes it easier for me to find your message too. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'''343 GuiltySpark]] • Talk Page • 01:21, September 26, 2011 (UTC) Page rename I've decided to rename the page "Solar System Items" to Planet keys. I think it's more succinct, in describing the array of objects. This name should hold in general, with the sole exception of the Sun, of course. Anyway, several other fans also use this term to describe the keys, so I've decided to match with that. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 03:04, September 27, 2011 (UTC) * If you say so. Calling them Planet keys totally messes me up because, well, they're not all planets, and they're no all keys, exactly. As for the capitalization, I'm rather more used to seeing titles with all words capped except perhaps for prepositions. What convention do you want to use? Just initial word and proper nouns? Groupoid 03:29, September 27, 2011 (UTC)Groupoid * Yeah, we probably shouldn't think too hard about the names, because one way or another, there will be exceptions (Take the Zero key card for example), so there's no name out there that encompasses everything. But wouldn't key cards count as keys too? Anyways, for capitalization, it's really hard to set standards for it, since there isn't a fine line that divides things. Pretty much all the proper nouns should be capitalized i.e. names. And for anything else people shouldn't be so eager to capitalize things that don't need to be. All articles names will automatically have the first letter capitalized anyway, so you can't really do much about that. And above all, if the game capitalizes it, then it's capitalized; if the game doesn't capitalize it, then it's not capitalized. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 04:44, September 27, 2011 (UTC) Re:Wikia's link I've actually been considering that for a while. However, I don't have the power to change the website domain. I'd have to contact Wikia central for that. Tell me, how did you personally stumble upon this site? * Adopting the Wiki would only make me a bureaucrat, which is just an admin that's given the additional power of adding/removing other admins. With a small wiki like this, that's not something I'm considering right now. All requests must be directed toward Wikia Staff to avoid conflicts with other wikis. You can find the contact page on this site under . It's really not that hard to change the name, but, I'll need to get a consensus first. Maybe we could ask Shark and/or one other if they agree? But if I do change the name, I think I'll simply rename it to http://999.wikia.com/. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 00:08, September 28, 2011 (UTC) * Yep, we should ask the others. But there is a reason why I didn't suggest we change the name to http://999.wikia.com/, which is that I don't think you can... When I was creating my experimental wiki it wouldn't allow me to use that name because it "contained a word that violated their naming policy". If I were you writing the email to Wikia central I might put http://999.wikia.com/ as a first hypothesis just in the of change they accept it, but if they don't I would use put my other suggestion as a second hypothesis, unless you find a better one that is acceptable to them. Groupoid 00:18, September 28, 2011 (UTC)Groupoid The Planet Keys If anyone knows an easy way to have the two Venus lock pictures showing alternatively let me know. How about a slide-show of the two alternating image? A small one, of course. (I have no idea how to make a talk-page for an article...) SharkGears 00:38, September 28, 2011 (UTC) *First, please sign the message. Now I don't know if you're shark or spark. Second, my intention would be to do something without the slideshow outer window and, preferably, something that behaves well with text. Maybe I just don't know how, but I don't think slidshows like having text at their sides. Groupoid 00:29, September 28, 2011 (UTC)Groupoid *Whoops, my apologies, I forgot. Also, yea, that's right too. There is a slideshow outside the template in the RED and DEAD article, if you want to see the effect to text it has. But other then that, I have no more ideas. Well, beyond making the image into a .GIF itself and have it animate itself... SharkGears 00:38, September 28, 2011 (UTC) Headers Well, the edit button thing wasn't too terrible. What I find odd was the lack of a breaker-ruler when you use one = , which sometimes I find a bit odd to the eyes. But otherwise, it isn't really too much trouble. Well, dressing it up comes later, but I was just curious was there another way around it, that's all. :) SharkGears 13:03, September 29, 2011 (UTC) Re: 2nd class cabin concept art Well, it is a concept art, so it's implied that anything seen may not reflect the final product shown in the game. You could mention that in the image description, but I don't think most people would notice the difference anyway. I think I'll leave it there for now, but if you find a better place to put it then feel free to do so. An alternative would be to make a "Gallery" section where we can dump miscellaneous stuff like in the Gyokugen Dasshutsu Adv: Zennin Shiboudes article, but once we get more content, I think moving it there would be a viable option. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 03:26, October 25, 2011 (UTC) * I know it's concept art. But it's weird as it is right now because if someone does happen to read the "layout text", then odds are that, since the image is right there, he will look to the image to compare. I'll leave it there pending a better idea, but it seems less than ideal. And, yeah, a gallery type section is what I had in mind, but we'll need more content before that really makes sense, which is why I asked if there was more of this concept art stuff. Which reminds of some other concept art I saw somewhere. Groupoid 03:34, October 25, 2011 (UTC)Groupoid Character Concept Art Thanks Groupoid, where did you find them? And as for the kitchen, I have yer kitchen right here. The link didn't work for me either; I just happened to get the kitchen from the same place I got the 2nd class cabin concept art. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 03:07, November 1, 2011 (UTC) * The concept art was found by TheNewEditor, not me. I just thought I would go ahead and upload the images myself since you were taking awhile. On slightly related note, I recently found a site with many ripped sprites and whatnot (including all CG, and other stuff), which will in particular allow me to replace some of the stuff I uploaded so far. I think I'll include all this info in a revamp I'm thinking about doing for the "style" page under a "suggested resources" section. Re:Spoiler Policy Well, since none of us here have played the game yet, and I doubt Chunsoft has released any real spoilers regarding endings and stuff, so feel free to put any and all new information you can get your hands on into the article. We're trying to be the most comprehensive site on all 999 information here, so we need to soon rival and beat all other sites on the internet, including Wikipedia. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 20:54, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Ahem. It appears that by popular demand, this wikia wants to remain spoiler-free. I see you've created spoiler and endspoiler templates to be used. I saw some just like that on the Layton wikia a while back, but I'm not completely sure if that's where you got it from (even if the code is identical). It might be a good solution for people who haven't beaten the game but visit this site anyway. And with Zendesu coming out, you can expect the site traffic to increase too. Similar to your "Shih-na/Calisto Yew" story, I, while visiting the aforementioned Layton wikia before beating Last Time Travel, looked up "Future Luke" and got redirected to the "Clive" page instead, something which I deeply regretted. As you can see, using that presents problems on writing articles and formatting. Even though that wikia had the spoiler tags at the time, it wasn't completely watertight, and some spoilers still managed to "leak" through. Trying to take any spoiler-related content on one page and trying to jam them all into one section of an article sometimes just doesn't work. Also, what should be classified as "spoilers"? For example, the 9th Man's page has descriptions about him as a scientist at Cradle in his basic description. Would you count that as a spoiler?[[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 02:40, November 18, 2011 (UTC) Main Page Groupoid, next time you make a change of such visible magnitude, understand that you need to beforehand, at least notify * the community * and/or an admin of your proposed change. I didn't plan on this wiki becoming a clone of Ace Attorney Wiki, but I'll keep the template for now. I'd like to keep the Main Page unlocked for a reason, but just remember next time, okay? You can either message me, or create a blog for discussion, like you've done in the past.[[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 15:31, November 24, 2011 (UTC) An armistice Groupoid, why must respond so negatively to anything I say? I was only reminding you to notify us before you did something so visible that might spark objections, including my own. I admit, I feel that your tone does contain some scorn. We at this wikia are supposed to strive towards a positive editing environment, otherwise things can lead to unproductivity and conflict. I'm speaking to you not as an admin, but as an editor. I'd prefer that you not accuse me of being pretentious. Nowhere in my message did I ever state that I and the community were synonymous, in fact, I clearly listed us two as two separate entities. It's true, although they are usually not regarded as authority figures, an admin's job is to prevent the wiki from falling into chaos and disorder, and when it comes to disputes in which all sides are deadlocked, and neither side can reach a mutual agreement, only then, as a last resort, does an admin have the final say. The reason why I haven't been as active lately is that right now, I'm going through a very busy period in my personal life so that I'm unable to contribute as much as I would like to. But just because I don't edit as much doesn't mean I'm not there. I frequently monitor this wiki and fulfill my responsibility as admin by keeping things in check. I'll tell you, any message you say won't fall on deaf ears. And even if no one replies to you in a day, have patience. As for the "major revamp", there were 4 main things that were addressed. The manual of style, the main page, the featured article, and the poll. The manual of style change idea was axed by the community on account of fear of spoilers, so it never got implemented. The featured article and the poll were both changed, so the only thing left that needs to be changed is the main page. I know the the main description on the main page is obsolete with the new game coming out, and I do have plans to change everything, but until that game is released, I think I can hold it off until then. "I must however say I am surprised to even hear objections: as far as I'm concerned our current main page is incredibly boring" We all have differing opinions and personal tastes here, and to declare that only your opinion is what everyone else believes is called... Um, it starts with a "b" and ends with "otry". There also might be a "g" and an "i" in there too. Just kidding. But the best way to gather information on what the community thinks is to create a blog. If you disagree on something...anything, don't hold back your opinions, tell us. I really want to end this senseless fighting. If you choose to respond reactively to this message, I'll reply, but I'm not going to fight back. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 23:31, November 24, 2011 (UTC) Re: Indentation in code Unfortunately, no. The wiki markup is a pseudo-HTML/CSS, so it's a markup language, not a programming language. Therefore, the wiki parser normally will read the "code" and treat it as text, and will print everything out onto the page literally and exactly as it appears, including all whitespaces, new lines, etc. The only exception to when it doesn't parse and print things out exactly as they appear is when it encounters special characters, including brackets "[]", braces, "{}", asterisks, "*", pipes "|", HTML tags "", and other random jank. Then the wiki parser goes into "code mode" and treats things differently. I know it's bad programming style, but this isn't the case here. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 22:49, November 25, 2011 (UTC) Re: Collapsible tables Yeah, I believe using collapsible tables is an excellent way to hide spoilers. I think it is a permissions issue because I went and added the code from http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Advice:Going_collapsible to our wiki's MediaWiki:Common.js and MediaWiki:Common.css files without any problems. I went and experimented a little, and voila, it worked. Our wiki now has collapsible tables enabled. So now, if you encounter any further problems, I'd be glad to know about it. [[User:343 GuiltySpark|'343 GuiltySpark']] • Talk Page • 02:23, December 26, 2011 (UTC)